DATE: 8/14/01
SUBJECT: August 10, 2001 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes
VOTING MEMBERS AND 2001 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
3Com (& CommWorks) Roy Leventhal
Ansoft Corporation (Eric Bracken)
Apple Computer John Figueroa
Applied Simulation Technology [Raj Raghuram], Norio Matsui, Fred Balistreri
Avanti (Chen Hongyu)
Cadence Design [Ian Dodd], Patrick Dos Santos, Heiko Dudek,
Lynne Green*, Lance Wang
Cisco Systems Syed Huq, Lungfu Chen
Cypress Semiconductor (Rajesh Manapat)
EMC Corporation Brian Arsenault, Jinhua Chen
Fairchild Semiconductor Adam Tambone
Huawei Technologies Rachild Chen
IBM Michael Cohen, Greg Edlund*, Wes Martin,
Yeon-Chang Hahm, Bill DeVey, Pravin Patel
Innoveda (& HyperLynx) Guy de Burgh*, John Angulo*, Cary Mandel,
Matthew Flora, Steve Kaufer
Intel Corporation Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Dave Lorang,
Michael Mirmak*, Qinglun Chen, Will Hobbs,
Wei-hsing Huang
LSI Logic Larry Barnes
Mentor Graphics Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino*, Chris Reid,
Mike Donnelly, Hazem Hegazy, Tony Dunbar,
Griff Derryberry, Dan Lake, Sherif Hammad,
Mohammed Korany, Weston Beal, Chris Swaim,
Ali Samii, Eric Ronger, Karine Loudet,
Daisaku Shiga, Kenji Kushima
Micron Technology Randy Wolff*, Yong Phan*
Mitsubishi Pat Hefferan
Molex Incorporated Gus Panella, Brian O'Malley
National Semiconductor Milt Schwartz
North East Systems Associates Edward Sayre
Philips Semiconductor Zack Ciccone, Rob Mataheroe
Quantic EMC (Mike Ventham)
Signal Integrity Software Douglas Burns, Barry Katz, Walter Katz
Sigrity Raj Raghuram*
SiQual Scott McMorrow, Rob Hinz, Bernard Voss,
Chris Brewster
Texas Instruments Thomas Fisher, Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar,
Jean Claude Perrin, Moshiul Haque
Time Domain Analysis Systems Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey
Tyco Electronics (Russell Moser)
Via Technologies (Weber Chuang)
Zuken (& Incases) John Berrie, Ralf Bruening
OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2001:
Actel Corporation Silvia Montoya
Acuson Kim Helliwell
AMCC Jeff Smith
ASIS Ltd David Wright
Brocade Communications Robert Badal
BMW Friedrich Hasinger
Cereva Networks Bob Haller
Compaq [Peter LaFlamme], Ron Bellomio, Quang Dam,
Bill Ham
EADS Airbus Industry Claude Huet
(Aerospatiale)
EFM Ekkehard Miersch, Horle Raines
EIA Cecilia Fleming*
Ericsson Radio Systems Anders Ekholm
FCI Sercu Stefaan
Foundary Networks Bertram Chan
Framatom Conectors Danny Morlion
Fraunhofer Institute Mariusz Faferko, Peter Kralicek
Reliability and
Integration
Fujitsu Ltd Tadashi Arai, Takeshi Murakami
Heidelberger Druchmaschinen AG Wolfgang Kleinfeldt
Hyundai Electronics Jongho Kang
Idaho State University Al Davis
Infineon Technologies Christian Sporrer
Intrinsix Corporation Steven Chin
Motorola (Rick Kingen)
National Institute of Applied Etienne Sicard
Science (INSA)
Nokia Tapani von Ravner, Mika Castren,
Janne Uusitalo
Nortel Networks Calvin Trowell
Oak Technology Darmin Jin
Plexus Technology Group Joseph Socha
Siemens (& Automotive) AG Bernhard Unger, Helmut Katzier, Katja Koller,
Wolfram Meyer, Eckhard Lenski, Gerald
Bannert,
Burkhard Muller, Christian Marot,
Manfred Maurer, Amir Motamedi, Hans
Pichlmaier
Sintecs Hans Klos
STMicroelectronics Peter Hirt, Fabrice Boissieres
Sun Adrian Udenze
Toshiba Corp. Hirokaza Kato, Yuichi Koga, Toshio Sudo
Xilinx Susan Wu
In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.
Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are
as follows:
Date Bridge Number Reservation # Passcode
August 31, 2001 (916) 356-2663 2 4779396
Thursday, September 13, 2001 IBIS Summit Meeting, No Phone Bridge
All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time. We try to have agendas
out 7 days before each Open Forum, and meeting minutes out within 7 days
after. When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted
by Stephen Peters and give the reservation number and passcode.
NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
-------------------------------- MINUTES ------------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
No new members.
MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Stephen Peters reported that Sigrity has become an official EIA IBIS Member
and Cypress Semiconductor has renewed its membership, making 31 members to
date. They are now listed as Voting Members.
REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
The July 20, 2001 IBIS Minutes were approved without change.
The ARs will be discussed during the meeting.
MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
None.
PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Bob Ross reported that the August 2001 issue of Integrated System Design
(ISD) has the article "Signal Integrity Analysis Reaps Huge Dividends for
Network Board Designers" by Hans Pichlmaier and Heinz Harmut Ibowski
on pp. 26-30. The article includes discussion of IBIS and IBIS modeling
issues. It can be found at:
http://www.isdmag.com/story/OEG20010803S0027
Bob also put some uploaded some old IBIS material for historical interest.
Some older IBIS Summit meeting material (mostly minutes) from 1993 through
1996 are under
http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/
The .zip files containing the sets of minutes for 1993 and 1994 are expanded
under
http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/minutes/
Bob noted that Syed Huq has done some more Roster updates and updated the
JEITA IMIC link to be listed later.
NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Bob Ross reported on some new and changed IBIS Model links:
Elpida Memory, Inc. (Distributes Hitachi and NEC Memories):
http://www.elpida-memory.com/en/products/model.html
Hitachi DRAM and Modules are now under (URL is split to avoid truncation):
http://www.hitachi.co.jp/Sicd/English/Products/memory/simulation/
dram_simulatee.html
I-Cube, Inc. has IBIS models under Products, Design Support Downloads:
http://www.icube.com/
Music Semiconductor's IBIS models are moved to:
http://www.music-ic.com/index.php?section1=support&contentid=support_ibis
OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
Bob Ross - DesignCon 2002 IBIS Summit Meeting. This is discussed below.
INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Cecilia Fleming stated that the document
is available and can be found under the following links (split into two
lines to avoid mailer truncation).
http://www.iec.ch/cgi-bin/procgi.pl/www/
iecwww.p?wwwlang=e&wwwprog=TCpubs.p&committee=TC&number=93
It can be purchased for 136 Swiss Francs. The IEC 62014-1 agenda item
will now be dropped.
- JEITA ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits
(IMIC) - Bob Ross reported EIAJ has merged with JEITA and that the IMIC
document is now located under:
http://tsc.jeita.or.jp/eds/IOPG.htm
- IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal
(formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Stephen Peters
stated that Etienne Sicard plans to present the work at the
September 13, 2001 IBIS Summit. This will be discussed later in the meeting.
- JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - No report.
- T10, Project 1414-DT - SCSI Signal Modeling (a Technical Committee of the
National Committee for Information Technology (NCITS)) - No report.
PCB CONFERENCE EAST 2001 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANS
Stephen Peters reported that an IBIS Summit Meeting is planned for Thursday,
September 13, 2001 in Worcester, Massachusetts at the Crowne Plaza Hotel
near the PCB Conference East 2001 show. The meeting follows the day after
the trade show portion of the show. The Upcoming events link of the IBIS Home
page already contains the sign-up information and hotel information. Free
lunch and refreshments are included.
Stephen stated that the first and second announcements have been sent by
Kathy Breda of NESA. Currently 13 or 14 attendees have signed up.
Stephen asked, and most of the officers are planning to attend.
To date, four presentations are planned (titles may change):
"Modeling the Radiated Emission of Micro-controllers", Etienne Sicard,
National Institute of Applied Science (INSA) in France
"A Proposal for s2ibis3", Michael Steer, North Carolina State University
"Power/Ground Simulation with IBIS Models and Pin Mapping Issues",
Raj Raghuram, Sigrity, Inc.
Title to be determined related to being a user of IBIS models
Bob Haller, Cereva Networks
Stephen stated that Lynne Green of the futures committee will present
several IBIS-X examples for discussion and Stephen will discuss IBIS-X
and Connector Specification progress. Two other presentations on various
issues are pending.
Stephen and Bob Ross discussed the funding issue. Economic conditions are
tight this year. Mentor Graphics is still willing to commit to sharing
either 1/3 of the expenses with others or giving a fixed amount. The overall
meeting cost including lunch is estimated to be around $2,000. Another
company also expressed interest. Bob stated that the only benefit would be
co-sponsorship recognition on the announcements and at the meeting and
possibly having your name on a banner at the meeting. Allowing co-sponsors
to give product demonstrations would not be offered since this was not being
offered to all interested companies.
Stephen proposed that the EIA IBIS Open Forum pick up the remaining balance.
Bob seconded the proposal. After some discussion, the Committee voted
unanimously by roll call vote to accept the proposal.
DESIGNCON 2002 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING (New Agenda Item)
Bob Ross reported early planning is underway for an IBIS Summit Meeting
on Monday, January 28, 2002 in Santa Clara, California and associated with
DesignCon 2002. We expect to be an Associate Sponsor, as in the past.
Bob asked whether we should have a passive booth. Guy de Burgh stated that
Innoveda is willing to supply and handle the booth setup.
In the past, National Semiconductor has sponsored the lunch. Milt Schwartz
stated that he is still investigating the possibility this year. Because of
the economy, it may take a while to find out. Bob stated that we do not
need an immediate answer. However, other companies are welcome to be a
co-sponsor.
IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
Bob Ross will take over short term until we find a replacement. In the
mean time, John Angulo will transfer any outstanding information to Bob.
MAJORDOMO UPDATE
John Angulo reported that ibis@eda.org is now being distributed under
majordomo. Some details and settings regarding archiving are still being
worked out, but since July 24, 2001, the ibis@eda.org e-mail is archived
under
http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/hm/
John indicated that he is still working on issues including some cosmetic
formatting details and attachment references (attachments are permitted and
are stored in a lower directory). Bob Ross stated that the archive is in
HTML format which loses some text spacing alignment detail. Also Bob
stated that some messages appear not to have been delivered, indicating
that there are still some glitches.
John stated that the subscription process through majordomo involves a
response, and a response to the response to validate the correct address.
Even with significant overlap, we still plan to maintain two lists, if
possible. One is the normal business list (ibis@eda.org), and the other is
the users list (ibis-users@eda.org).
John stated that we have not received a significant amount of spam through
the lists at this time. Bob proposed that the list remain open at this time
to minimize the disruption. We can trap some spam mail, if needed.
John stated that he has had good response with the list administrators, and
will probably complete the conversion in a few weeks. Stephen Peters thanked
John for his work.
CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW
Stephen Peters reported that the Connector review committee meet July 24
and 31, and again August 7th. The committee is continuing with the review
of the specification, including a couple of specific keywords that were
added. Bob Ross also mentioned that, starting August 14th, the connector
meeting has been expanded to two hours weekly.
IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx)
Stephen Peters reported that the IBIS futures committee meet July 24, 31,
and August 3. Stephen also noted that starting August 17th the meetings
will change days to Thursday afternoon.
Stephen reported that the committee has finalized the list of primitive
element for IBIS-X, and Lynne Green will be documenting them in the IBIS-X
Macro Language Reference manual. The committee also reviewed a proposal to
restructure the IBIS-X data file. After considerable debate, the committee
decided to postpone major restructuring until after the initial IBIS-X
specification has been released.
Stephen then gave the background regarding the funding proposal for an
IBIS-X parser. Al Davis has offered his parser, under several different
license arrangements, for use by the committee. Stephen stated that he
felt the IBIS Open Forum must retain control of the source of any
"official" IBIS-X parser, and Bob Ross concurred. A lively discussion
ensued, in which several people noted that the IBIS-X parser should go
through a bidding process as was done for the IBIS 3.2 parser. It was noted
that we cannot do this until the current IBIS-X specification is stable.
Several people indicated that there might be a business conflict of interest,
and Bob Ross stated that we need to adopt an arms length relationship
regarding any financial or business aspects related to any unofficial parser
development activity.
BIRD70.4 - GOLDEN WAVEFORMS
Stephen Peters introduced BIRD70.4 that Greg Edlund issued on July 23, 2001.
(Bob Ross discovered that the date on uploaded BIRD70.4 was incorrect,
leading to some initial confusion.)
Stephen noted that while the waveform tables in this bird were assumed to
follow the same rules for construction as the existing
[Rising Waveform]/[Falling Waveform] keywords, the proposed bird did not
state this explicitly. Greg agreed to adding a sentence to make this explicit.
Both Lynne Green and Stephen mentioned that the location where waveform
data was measured was not explicitly defined. After discussion Greg agreed
to add wording that clarified that 'near' data is measured at the driver pad
while 'far' data is measured as the receiver pad.
Bob Ross noted that if Test_data_type is Differential, the bird did not state
which driver output (inverting or non-inverting) a single ended waveform would
be generated from. After discussion Greg agreed to clarify this by explicitly
specifying the non-inverting output. Finally, Bob observed that the use of the
term 'SPICE' when describing reference waveforms was not clear. Bob proposed
using the term 'reference waveforms', and after discussion this was agreed to.
Stephen then called for a vote with the above changes. Bird 70.4, as amended,
was accepted unanimously by roll call vote.
AR - Greg Edlund issue BIRD70.5 with the approved changes. [Done]
BIRD71 - TIMING TEST LOADS IN [Model Spec] TO SUPPORT PCI & PCI-X
Stephen Peters then introduced Bird 71 for a final vote. Bob Ross
noted a few minor editorial changes which Stephen agreed to. Stephen
then called for a vote. Bird 71 was accepted unanimously by roll call
vote.
BIRD72 - ACCOMMODATING PMOS AND NMOS/PMOS SERIES FET MODELS
Stephen Peters deferred discussion because not everyone received a copy due
to mailer problems. This will be discussed at the next meeting.
AR - Bob Ross will reissue BIRD72 on both reflectors.
BIRD73 - FALL BACK SUBMODEL
Stephen Peters deferred discussion because not everyone received a copy due
to mailer problems. This will be discussed at the next meeting.
AR - Bob Ross will reissue BIRD72 on both reflectors.
AR - Stephen Peters will issue a notice on the ibis-users reflector stating
that the main ibis reflector is not propagating all posts. [Done]
IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING
Bob Ross reported that Atul Agarwal will plans to do the ibischk3 parser
update for BUGs 48-56 by the middle to end of September, 2001. This may not
include BUG54, which he does not understand.
BUG58 - Wrong Bug Number for Missing R,L,C_pkg Subparameters(s)
Bob Ross discussed BUG58 submitted by Lance Wang. The Error message
issued for a missing required subparameter line such as L_pkg is not
close to the problem. For example, the error line number was not for
the next keyword, but the following keyword.
After some discussion, BUG58 was classified as ANNOYING, LOW, and OPEN.
We will plan to fix this unless we find some difficult technical issues.
BUG59 - Crash with Decimal Points for [Package] Subparameters
Michael Mirmak introduced BUG59 by stating that ibischk3 crashed on a
Windows 2000 system only when a subparameter numerical entry was
incorrectly entered (two decimal points for a C_pkg value). Michael also
stated that Bob Ross could not reproduce the crash on a Windows NT system.
Instead, Bob did observe that the error messages were different on Unix
workstations. The NT (DOS mode) reported an extra PROGRAM BUG and also
another related ERROR message, but it did not cause ibischk3 to crash or
terminate prematurely.
Lynne Green and John Angulo will try the BUG59 test case independently.
BUG59 was classified as ANNOYING, LOW, and OPEN. More investigation will
be done on it. We need to at least resolve the "PROGRAM BUG" report since
that is a soft program failure message. Stephen Peters stated that someone
besides Atul Agarwal may need to investigate this if Atul does not have
access to the Windows NT system.
NEXT MEETING:
The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, August 31, 2001, from
8:00 AM to 10:00 AM.
==============================================================================
NOTES
IBIS CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-1831
stephen.peters@intel.com
Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
M/S JF4-215
2111 NE 25th Ave.
Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961
VICE CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
bob_ross@mentor.com
Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics
8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070
SECRETARY: Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
gdeburgh@innoveda.com
Senior Manager, Innoveda
1369 Del Norte Rd.
Camarillo, CA 93010-8437
LIBRARIAN: Roy Leventhal (837) 797-2152, Fax: (847) 222-2799
roy_leventhal@3com.com
Senior Engineer, CommWorks Corp. (a wholly owned 3Com subsidiary)
1800 W. Central Rd.
Mt. Prospect, IL 60056-2293
WEBMASTER: Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
shuq@cisco.com
Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
170 West Tasman Drive
San Jose, CA 95134-1706
POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008
jangulo@innoveda.com
Development Engineer, Innoveda
14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200
Redmond, WA 98052
This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.
The following e-mail addresses are used:
ibis-request@eda.org
To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
(ibis@eda.org), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector (ibis-users@eda.org)
or both. State your request.
ibis-info@eda.org
To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
Open Forum as a full Member.
ibis@eda.org
To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector. This
is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
technical enhancements. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibis-users@eda.org
To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector. This is
used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
general user concerns. Job posting information is not permitted.
ibischk-bug@eda.org
To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs. The Bug Report Form Resides on
eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.
To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
/pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
respectively.
Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:
http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm
Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous
discussions and results. You can get on via FTP anonymous.
===============================================================================